{"id":690,"date":"2020-07-09T10:33:58","date_gmt":"2020-07-09T09:33:58","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.notesfromthepodium.co.uk\/?p=690"},"modified":"2021-05-22T13:19:21","modified_gmt":"2021-05-22T12:19:21","slug":"benjamin-zander-on-beethovens-symphony-no-9","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.notesfromthepodium.co.uk\/?p=690","title":{"rendered":"Benjamin Zander on Beethoven\u2019s Symphony No. 9"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p>17<sup>th<\/sup> March 2020<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Benjamin Zander is the conductor of the Boston Philharmonic Orchestra\nand the Boston Philharmonic Youth Orchestra. He is also a guest conductor with\norchestras around the world and is a three-time Grammy nominee. For the past\nfifty years, Zander has occupied a unique place as a master teacher, deeply\ninsightful and probing interpreter, and as a profound source of inspiration for\naudiences, students, professional musicians, corporate leaders, and politicians\naround the world. He has persistently engaged well-informed musical and public\nintellectuals in a quest for insight and understanding into the western musical\ncanon and the underlying spiritual, social, and political issues that inspired\nits creation.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>His performances have inspired thousands of musicians, renewed their\nsense of idealism, and shed fresh, insightful, and sometimes provocative light\non the interpretation of the central symphonic repertoire of the Nineteenth&nbsp;and\nTwentieth&nbsp;Centuries. Critics and the public have been united in their\npraise of Zander\u2019s interpretations of the central repertory.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Zander enjoys an international career\nas a speaker on leadership, with several keynote speeches at the Davos World\nEconomic Forum, where he was presented with the Crystal Award for \u201cOutstanding\nContributions in the Arts and International Relations.\u201d The best-selling book, <em>The Art of Possibility<\/em>, co-authored with\nleading psychotherapist Rosamund Zander, has been translated into eighteen\nlanguages. In 2019, Zander was presented with a Lifetime Achievement Award at\nthe ABSA Achievement Awards in Johannesburg in recognition of his contributions\nin the spheres of Music, Culture and Leadership. This is the first time that\nthe award has been given to a non-South African. Previous recipients of the\nAward include Nelson Mandela and\nBishop Desmond Tutu.&nbsp;Zander\u2019s\nTED talk on The Transformative Power of Classical Music has been seen by almost\nnineteen million people. He has a widely viewed series of internet classes\ncalled \u2018Interpretation of Music and Lessons in Life\u2019 that can be seen on\nYouTube.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p style=\"text-align:center\">&#8212;&#8211;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>In 2018 Zander released a recording of Beethoven\u2019s Symphony No. 9 with the Philharmonia,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/drive.google.com\/file\/d\/1mBt-SWHcMJKmi8Py_SFmM9HmjamonF8b\/view?usp=sharing\">https:\/\/drive.google.com\/file\/d\/1mBt-SWHcMJKmi8Py_SFmM9HmjamonF8b\/view?usp=sharing<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>along with a two and a half hour discussion of Beethoven&#8217;s score. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/drive.google.com\/file\/d\/1Z-zB5cJqt9TjbxIUPhZqSHMu4XsOrtiJ\/view?usp=sharing\">https:\/\/drive.google.com\/file\/d\/1Z-zB5cJqt9TjbxIUPhZqSHMu4XsOrtiJ\/view?usp=sharing<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is referenced throughout our conversation below. Zander&#8217;s meticulous attention to detail sets the piece alight in ways I&#8217;d not previously experienced. I strongly encourage you to listen to the recording as well as the entire discussion to really get the most out of the interview, and truly open your eyes\/ears to Zander&#8217;s unique insights, coming from decades of experience, study and passion for the composer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>If Mr. Zander is correct, we have been listening to the music of the greatest composer only in misrepresentation<\/em>. Andrew Porter, The New Yorker Magazine<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>The distillation of a lifetime investigating composers\u2019 truest intentions\u2026.this account of the work heaps revelation on revelation<\/em>. Paul Driver, The Sunday Times (London)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Zander\u2019s reasoning is consistently sensible, scholarly and compelling\u2026 in&nbsp;explaining his efforts to take the composer at his word, Zander gets to the&nbsp;crux of musical interpretation.<\/em>Gramophone<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p style=\"text-align:center\">&#8212;&#8211;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>It was great to listen to your recording<a href=\"#_ftn1\"><strong>[1]<\/strong><\/a>\n\u2013 which I LOVE by the way.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Great. I am delighted. I\u2019m so happy it\u2019s out\nin the world, although it\u2019s quite an effort for people to take in the two and a\nhalf hours of discussion.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Well, I sat there taking notes.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Wonderful! <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>First of all I wanted to ask you about something you said on a trailer\nfor \u2018Following the Ninth\u2019.<a href=\"#_ftn2\"><strong>[2]<\/strong><\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yes,\na man went around the world filming performances of the Ninth. He filmed a\nperformance I was doing with the Cape Town Symphony.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Yes! You said \u2018if given a chance to meet one person in history, for me\nit would be Beethoven. And the question I would ask him \u2013 if I only had one\nquestion \u2013 would be the Ninth Symphony\u2019.&nbsp;\nSo now I\u2019m itching to know exactly what this question is, and why you\u2019d\nwant to ask it.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let me just step back for a moment. Any performance\nof the Ninth is an occasion. It\u2019s always a grand event and the many recordings and\nperformances haven\u2019t dulled its impact. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So the question is: does it make a real difference\nif it\u2019s played one way or another? Are all the performances by the great conductors\nequally valid? <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ferdinand Ries said Beethoven was adamant that\nhis students play his music in the way he dictated. So, if I met him, I would\nask if he meant everything he wrote. I would expect the answer to be \u2018yes\u2019, but\nI would like to check up. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I would especially like to know about the sections\nthat have created so much controversy. If he doesn\u2019t approve of my performance\nof the second movement\u2019s Trio,<a href=\"#_ftn3\">[3]<\/a> or\nthe March in the last movement, then I would have to question the very basis of\nmy approach. And then there\u2019s the additional problem of the controversy over the\nmistakes that Karl [von Beethoven \u2013 Ludwig\u2019s nephew] made that I hope I\u2019ve been\nable to put to rest.<a href=\"#_ftn4\">[4]<\/a> It\nwould be nice to hear it from the horse\u2019s mouth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It is a pity that most of the critics have\nfocused on the Trio [starting bar 412]<a href=\"#_ftn5\">[5]<\/a> \u2013\nthey can\u2019t seem to let it go because it\u2019s so unusual and shocking when you hear\nit for the first time.<a href=\"#_ftn6\">[6]<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>I wanted to ask you about the trio. You spoke about the solo at bar 454 that\nthe oboist<a href=\"#_ftn7\"><strong>[7]<\/strong><\/a>\ndidn\u2019t think was going to be possible at Beethoven\u2019s tempo\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>To\nbe accurate the oboist didn\u2019t say it wasn\u2019t possible at Beethoven\u2019s tempo, he\nsaid \u201cI can\u2019t play it musically at Beethoven\u2019s tempo\u201d. As it turned out he\nplayed it really beautifully on the recording. One of the oboists in my youth\norchestra recorded it on his phone with a metronome ticking at 116 and sent it\nto me with a note attached: \u2018it\u2019s no problem at all. Here it is and I can do it\njust as well at 120\u2019. It sounded quite natural to me. Here is Rodion Belousov\nas recorded on his cell phone, you can judge for yourself:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.dropbox.com\/s\/8viij56cpk96kgm\/mm454-475-at-116-1.m4a?dl=0\">https:\/\/www.dropbox.com\/s\/8viij56cpk96kgm\/mm454-475-at-116-1.m4a?dl=0<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Imagine\nwaking up one day and finding a message from Beethoven saying: \u2018My metronome\nmarks, are correct. They are counter-intuitive, so you may have some difficulty\ngetting used to some of them at first and you will probably have to practice\nlike the Dickens to get the very fast ones to sound natural and convincing.\u2019 You\ncan be sure you\u2019d just accept them and get on with it. The problem is that\nthere are so many revered musicians who have told us that they are nonsense,\nand others who have come up with all sorts of fake news about broken metronomes\nor telling us that that we shouldn\u2019t trust them because Beethoven was deaf and\nso he couldn\u2019t see the metronome. We haven\u2019t given them a real chance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What\nI set out to do in this recording is to play the entire piece at the tempos\nBeethoven indicated (correcting a couple of mistakes along the way) so that\npeople can hear it that way for once. They may not like it as much as their\nfavourite recording (or their own recording!) \u2013 I am simply asking them to\nlisten. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>One thing I\u2019ve discovered is that although Beethoven\nsometimes asks for extremely fast tempi, he never asks for a tempo that\u2019s impossible.\n&nbsp;NEVER.<a href=\"#_ftn8\">[8]<\/a> It\nis always playable. Not necessarily playable by everybody, or playable the first\ntime through, and it may not have been playable by musicians in his own time. There\u2019s\nthe famous story of the violinist who protested \u2018I can\u2019t play it!\u2019 and he snapped\nback, \u2018what do I care for your lousy fiddle? I\u2019m looking to future generations\u2019.\nOur job as performers is to make ourselves available to whatever challenge the\ncomposer sets us. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Beethoven\nlived at the extreme edge of virtuosity and expressiveness. Everything about\nhim was extreme. This piece, the last great piece he wrote for orchestra, is\nbound to have explored extremes. To take a comfortable view of the piece, and make\nit comfortable or familiar in a way that we like to do with the music we love \u2013\n\u2018the songs my mother taught me\u2019 \u2013 is insufficient, given what he said about it\nand what he seems to have demanded. This approach is uncompromising in every\nway, including the two and a half hours that I\u2019m talking to the lay listener\nabout it. (It\u2019s not aimed at professional conductors, though I think they owe\nit to themselves, and to Beethoven, to at least think through these arguments.)\n<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>A young conductor came to visit a year ago just\nafter the recording came out. He heard the Trio once through and said, \u2018right, I\u2019m\ngoing to do that in my performance in June\u2019. Just like that. It was no hurdle\nfor him. Some older conductors and players have looked askance, as if to say, \u2018we\nknow how Beethoven\u2019s Ninth is supposed to go \u2013 leave us alone\u2019. I\u2019m saying, \u2018no,\nI won\u2019t leave you alone, because I don\u2019t think Beethoven would have left you\nalone\u2019.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Obviously your primary focus was to deliver Beethoven\u2019s wishes, but for\nyou, as the conductor, were there any tempi that really didn\u2019t feel natural?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Interestingly there was one and it wasn\u2019t\nbecause it was too fast.&nbsp; &nbsp;Beethoven\u2019s tempo for the double fugue \u2018Seid\numschlungen Millionen\u2019 [the Andante maestoso p.221]<a href=\"#_ftn9\">[9]<\/a> was\nslower than I wanted it to go. I found that I kept pushing it towards the tempo\nthat most people have found works best (i.e. around MM = 96. Both Furtwangler\nand Weingartner did it over 30 points faster than Beethoven marks it!). But what\npersuaded me was the contrabassoon player. He said to me, \u2018I\u2019ve played this\npiece I don\u2019t know how many times and I\u2019ve never been able to get all those\nnotes to sound clear at the tempo that most conductors take it. But at the\ntempo that you\u2019re doing it (i.e. Beethoven\u2019s tempo) it\u2019s perfectly natural to\nplay\u2019. At Beethoven\u2019s tempo (MM=84) the unwieldy contrabassoon (and the double\nbasses) have enough time to actually play those notes rather than fake them and\nat that tempo the intense grandeur of the Joy theme is fully realised. So, when\nI find myself wanting to push the tempo, I just imagine myself playing the\nnotes on the contrabassoon or singing the alto part in bar 675 and it makes me\nhold back. &nbsp;And when those Philharmonia tenors\ncome in with \u2018Seid umschlungen Millionen\u2019 at that tempo, it makes your hair literally\nstand on end, it\u2019s so exciting. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>All the other tempi I have come to feel as completely\nnatural. I can\u2019t hear the slow movement (actually I can\u2019t hear any of it) any\nother way. When the Ode to Joy is sung like [sings \u2018Freude, sch\u00f6ner G\u00f6tterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium\u2019 at a very slow tempo] it just sounds too slow. Beethoven didn\u2019t want\nit to sound lugubrious and pompous, it must soar with gentle joy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>As a general rule I start with the tempo that\nthe composer writes down. I only abandon it if I\u2019m absolutely sure that it\u2019s a\nmistake or a misjudgement. In the end I\u2019ve almost always learned something\nimportant about the piece or brought out something that is lost in performances\nthat ignore the composer\u2019s intentions. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>I watched a half-hour masterclass that you did with a young student\nconductor on Beethoven\u2019s Fifth.<a href=\"#_ftn10\"><strong>[10]<\/strong><\/a>\nMany people don\u2019t think of Beethoven as much of a melody writer and yet there\nyou were showing us that there is, in fact, a great melody at the beginning of\nSymphony No. 5, it\u2019s just being passed between the voices. I thought that was\nfascinating.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>There is something quite funny about that \u2013\nwhen I conducted the Fifth with the Israel Philharmonic, at the first rehearsal\nI sang the opening phrase between the violas, second violins and first violins.\nA cellist said, \u2018I\u2019ve been in this orchestra for thirty years, and nobody has\never pointed out that melody!\u2019 They had no idea it was there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Are there any particular moments where you think there\u2019s a melody that\nhas been missed in The Ninth?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>There is the famous example in the 12\/8\nsection of the slow movement [starting at bar 99]. When it is played at too\nslow a tempo (often as much 30 points slower than Beethoven\u2019s marking) the\naudience perceives the melody as being in the first violins, whereas it is\nactually in the winds. The violins meanwhile are playing an elaborate,\nfiligree, extremely virtuosic decoration around the cantus firmus in the winds.\n<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The very opening phrase in the first two\nbars, between the two bassoons and two clarinets all too often sounds like four\nseparate events, instead of one flowing phrase, like the opening of a flower,\nor human arms outstretched. That suddenly becomes apparent when it is played at\nBeethoven\u2019s 60 to the quarter (or rather 30 to the half note \u2013 or ideally 15 to\nthe bar!), as one ecstatic, flowing phrase. It\u2019s hard to do with four players \u2013\nthey have to feel the whole phrase as one. I call that One Buttock playing!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The main melody of the movement [sings and\nplays on the piano the following opening melody from bar 3] only works if you feel\nit in two, even if you actually give four beats for clarity \u2013 particularly when\nyou get to bar 15. Beethoven must have imagined a great aria with free, flowing\neighth-notes like Florestan pouring out his love.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>One of the apparent mysteries of the slow\nmovement is that Beethoven\u2019s tempo of the Adagio molto is 60,<a href=\"#_ftn11\">[11]<\/a> while\nthe tempo of the Andante moderato is 63. I remember a conversation with Colin\nDavis who used that to argue that Beethoven\u2019s metronome markings were nonsense.\n\u201cAn Adagio molto can\u2019t be the same tempo as an Andante moderato\u201d. But once we\nknow that 50 was the lowest number on Beethoven\u2019s metronome all becomes clear.\nHe meant 30 to the half note, but he didn\u2019t write it because he didn\u2019t have it\non his metronome. The difference between 30 and 60 is indeed the difference\nbetween Adagio and Andante. And 60 to 63? &nbsp;Yes, it\u2019s a tiny little difference. But so is\nthe difference between a D and an Eb. Beethoven had a very fine ear.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>There are often complaints about Beethoven\u2019s ill treatment of sopranos.\nThey have to sing so high \u2013 those high As and Bs. Antony Hopkins wrote \u2018it is\nworth remarking that the pitch that he would have remembered from the days when\nhe could hear was a full semitone flatter that what we have become used to. I\nhave read of a performance given a semitone down in which the alleged\ndifficulties all but vanished\u2019 (2011:277).<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, the people who have dealt with that\nhead on, of course, are the Historically Informed Performance conductors like John\nEliot Gardner and Roger Norrington. I\u2019m sure there\u2019s truth in that, and that\u2019s a\nvery interesting point. Antony Hopkins was brilliant and I love everything he\ndid. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Oh really?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\nthink he\u2019s fantastic. In a way I\u2019m a little bit of a follow-on, because like\nhim I try to make music understandable to non-musicians. I always give a talk\nbefore my concerts and I include explanation discs with all my recordings, so\nthat lay audiences don\u2019t feel left out. But my approach is not HIP\n(\u2018historically informed performance\u2019) in the sense of reproducing the\nconditions of the time. It has\nnothing to do with early instruments. This is the way the music goes! <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I do, however, love to confront the issue of whether\nto add the crucial timpani notes in the Fanfare in the slow movement (2 bars\nbefore A).&nbsp; It is so clear to me that\nBeethoven would have added them if they\u2019d been available. He would have been\nvery impatient with someone who was so deferent that they wouldn\u2019t help him out\nat a crucial moment like that! &nbsp;I\u2019m not\nat all purist in that sense.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So to go back to your point about the\nPhilharmonia Chorus (especially the sopranos) feeling strained. Several of them\ntold me that they found the tempi extremely helpful in reducing strain. Those\nsingers have sung that piece hundreds of times (some told me they were secretly\ndreading doing it yet again). I heard from so many of them afterwards how\nthrilled they were with this new approach, and how much easier it was to sing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>It is amazing how observing the tempi totally transforms the piece.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It really does totally transform the\nexperience for performer and listener.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>There are many tracks on your CD where you discuss the tempi in the symphony\nand they are listed from the \u2018least controversial\u2019 to the \u2018most controversial\u2019.\nBut in the \u2018least controversial\u2019 section there was something that I thought\nwould be in the \u2018most controversial\u2019: the fact that you wrote the viola part into\nthe horns in the fourth movement!<a href=\"#_ftn12\"><strong>[12]<\/strong><\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let\u2019s be clear here \u2013 the \u2018least\ncontroversial\u2019 to the \u2018most controversial\u2019 titles were to do with metronomic tempi\nonly. This is quite another matter. It\u2019s a question of another hidden melody. At\nbar 25 of the Andante Maestoso in the Finale you\u2019ll see the violas have a\nrather striking figure [sings the melody].<a href=\"#_ftn13\">[13]<\/a>\nIt\u2019s very original. It\u2019s worth hearing, but it never is. The reason is that the\nchorus is singing <em>forte<\/em> and so the\nviolas are buried. The poor man was deaf, for goodness sake! It\u2019s hardly\nsurprising that he occasionally made mistakes of balance. It\u2019s clearly an\noriginal and worthy idea. It ought to be heard, and on my recording it is! <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If I ever could have that conversation with Beethoven,\nI\u2019d say: \u2018that melody in the last movement isn\u2019t audible in the violas. Would\nyou mind if I supported it with a couple of horns to make sure that it\u2019s\nheard?\u2019 He would undoubtedly have said \u2018by all means\u2019. It\u2019s just the same as\nwith the Fanfare without the added timpani. It sounds silly without it. No\ncomposer would ever invent an original phrase and then allow it to be buried. But\nit doesn\u2019t mean you have to go around changing everything and adding trumpets\nand horns all over the place. Mostly the Ninth works perfectly well. It\u2019s just that\nin that one very special moment, Beethoven didn\u2019t have the notes available. So\nwe\u2019re helping him out, and I think that\u2019s perfectly appropriate. It\u2019s like how\nyou\u2019d help an old gentleman across the road.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Evidently Wagner did the same thing.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Generally speaking I found it unnecessary. At\nbar 93 in the Scherzo it is traditional to add horns. But I told just one horn\nplayer to play lightly to give a little bit of added strength, but not to allow\nthe horn timbre to draw attention to itself. I doubt anybody could perceive it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>That\u2019s very interesting.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What is so interesting is that four of the\nfourteen metronome marks in the Ninth are followed by virtually everyone. That\u2019s\nwhy in my explanation I begin with those four uncontroversial ones and then\nmove out to where there is the most controversy. The two most extreme ones (the\nTrio in the second movement and the March in the Finale) have few fans, but if they\ncan\u2019t be included in the scheme then the intricate pattern of relationships\ncrumbles. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>When I approached the piece for the first\ntime I took the stated tempo of the March in the Finale literally, the way Karl\nhad written it down as a dotted quarter note = 84. I am embarrassed to say I actually\nperformed it that way in Carnegie Hall with my Boston Philharmonic. However, it\nis much too slow for an Allegro assai vivace, and made no sense.<a href=\"#_ftn14\">[14]<\/a> But\na glance at the Conversation book shows that it was noted simply as 6\/8 84 \u2013\nthere was no mention of the note-value to which the 84 applied. Karl, knowing\nno better, just added the wrong note-value. It\u2019s perfectly understandable given\nthe newness of the process of notating metronome marks. He should have written\ndotted HALF. Once that is realised all that remains is for everyone to work\nlike the devil to be able to play it at that speed, but there\u2019s no more\ncontroversy, just terrific excitement. The words fit perfectly: \u2018stars flying\nacross the firmament\u2019; \u2018thus brothers you should run or race joyfully like a\nhero, going to victory\u2019. And off they go into a wild battle!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Another thing that I think people have found\nvery exciting about this recording is that the dynamics are followed literally.\nSo when the tenor comes in singing \u2018Froh, froh\u2019 [bar 45], he is singing it\npiano, as it is marked.&nbsp; He is standing\nin awe, spellbound, excited by the beauty and wonder of God\u2019s starry plan. Everybody\nis marked <em>pianissimo<\/em>. It is almost\nbreathless, like a whisper. At that tempo and played softly it is magical, like\nthe starry sky itself.&nbsp; Beethoven\u2019s\nwonder is palpable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\u2019s lamentable that singers and choruses have\nbeen allowed to bellow in the last movement, and then they blame Beethoven! But\nBeethoven is meticulous about the difference between <em>forte<\/em> and <em>fortissimo<\/em>. I\nmust have pointed it out a hundred times during rehearsals. It\u2019s just another\nof those bad habits. When the chorus doesn\u2019t have to sing <em>fortissimo<\/em> all the time it becomes much more enjoyable to sing and\nthe textures and words become clearer for the listener. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Incidentally, another aspect of Beethoven\u2019s tempi is that each bar is to be experienced as a beat in a four bar phrase: \u2018Freude, sch\u00f6ner G\u00f6tterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium\u2019<a href=\"#_ftn15\">[15]<\/a> is two four bar phrases with one impulse on &#8216;Freu&#8217; and another on &#8216;Toch&#8217;, not eight equal beats (with heads in the choir bobbing on each note). I myself often conduct four bars phrases in Beethoven, as if they were normal four beat bars. It is obvious that Beethoven is thinking that way when in the Scherzo he marks a series of three bar phrases: <em>Ritmo di tre battute<\/em> i.e. rhythm of three bars, meaning a hyper-rhythm of three bars, each bar being one beat.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>That can even be true with slow tempos. The Andante moderato in the third movement works perfectly at Beethoven\u2019s tempo and yet so ineffectively if it is played even a bit too slowly [sings and plays from bar 25 of third movement]. At MM = 63 the first bar (F#) can be felt as one beat. Then the following note (G) in the rising scale is the next &#8216;beat&#8217; and then to \u2018A\u2019. You wouldn\u2019t want to conduct it in one, but at that tempo (MM=63) you can indicate to the players that they should feel it in one. Is it too fanciful to think that Beethoven, sensing the need for a little more fluid movement at that moment, and having perfect time, as well as perfect pitch, moved the metronomic indication up from 60 to 63?&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The next section, Variation 1, Tempo 1 at bar\n43, works the same way. &nbsp;When felt (and\nconducted) in 2 the melodic structure behind the fanciful decoration becomes\nclearly audible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>This way of hearing music reveals the\nstructure by clearly distinguishing the melody from the decoration. Beethoven\u2019s\nfaster tempos, harnessed to a style of phrasing, which treats the bars as\nbeats, is designed to help reveal that structure. The second movement of the\nBeethoven Violin Concerto is another prime example of a melody often submerged,\nby a too slow tempo, behind what should be a delicate Irish lace-like decoration.\n(Click below for Boston Philharmonic\u2019s recording with Liza Fershtman).<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-soundcloud wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-soundcloud wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"BPO &amp; Liza Ferschtman - Beethoven&#039;s Violin Concerto by Boston Philharmonic Orchestra\" width=\"640\" height=\"450\" scrolling=\"no\" frameborder=\"no\" src=\"https:\/\/w.soundcloud.com\/player\/?visual=true&#038;url=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Fplaylists%2F1046270155&#038;show_artwork=true&#038;maxheight=960&#038;maxwidth=640&#038;secret_token=s-8yz4NnqfamJ\"><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beethoven\u2019s music is full of amazing modulations. When you\u2019re preparing\nthe score on your own before rehearsals, do you ever delve into harmonic\nanalysis?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I do, but I can\u2019t think of anything that\ndoesn\u2019t make perfect sense in the Ninth. Generally speaking I don\u2019t think that\nhas been an issue that has held back the interpretation of this music like the\nissues of tempo and the carelessness with dynamics. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>I just asked because sometimes conductors say they like to analyse the\nharmony because it gives an understanding of a piece (as if studying the\ncontours of the map). However, more often (so far) I\u2019m told they will find it\ninteresting, but not fundamental. They let it speak for itself. I just\nwondered, as Beethoven is King of modulation.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Well I\u2019ve never found a modulation in that\npiece that I didn\u2019t love! (laughs)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>The conductor <\/strong><strong>Andr\u00e9s Orozco-Estrada<\/strong><strong> (Music Director at Houston Symphony) has said that he thinks that the\nBeethoven Symphony Cycle is the best way to get to know a new orchestra. Do you\nagree with that?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sir William Glock, who was the head of the BBC\nwhen Colin Davis joined it as conductor of the BBC Symphony, would make him\nconduct the \u2018Eroica\u2019 every single year. I remember being amazed by that at the\ntime, normally you try to get variety and you don\u2019t do a piece more than once\nevery three or four years. But I think he thought (like Orozco-Estrada) that it\u2019s\nthe best training there is for both the orchestra and conductor. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The Ninth Symphony also calls on every single\npossible gift and capacity. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beethoven wanted the Ninth to be on a par with Bach\u2019s B minor Mass and Haydn\u2019s\n<em>Creation<\/em>.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It certainly poses, a lot of big issues. An\nexample is that shattering diminuendo in \u2018to God\u2019 [bar 94 of the Allegro\nassai].<a href=\"#_ftn16\">[16]<\/a> My\nlate friend Stuart Young (the South African Beethoven scholar) told me about it.\nHe took me off to the London Museum, where we got out the score (it was quite a\nritual to bring it up from the basement!). We opened it up, and sure enough \u2013 clear\nas a bell \u2013 there it was. Beethoven must have had second thoughts about it. When\nI heard the chorus do it, it sent shivers down my spine \u2013&nbsp;so different\nfrom what we are used to. He never wrote a letter about it and we don\u2019t have\nthe kind of evidence we need to be absolutely certain, but it\u2019s very clear in\nthe score, there\u2019s a diminuendo on the right hand side on the timpani part and\nat the top of the stave. On the left there\u2019s a sign that he put whenever he\nmade a change in the score. So I said \u2018OK I get it, let\u2019s do it\u2019. We did it. You\nhave to hear it to believe it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>I absolutely love that moment, and think the whole recording is really\nthrilling. It\u2019s very technicolour.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Great, that\u2019s beautiful. That\u2019s exactly what\nwe were looking for. That\u2019s the reason I took the extreme decision to have\nthree three-hour rehearsals and five recording sessions. Beethoven\u2019s Ninth is\nso familiar to a world class orchestra like the Philharmonia. They could have\ndispatched it in a single rehearsal. But I wanted to be sure that every one of\nthese thousands of details was fulfilled and it took that amount of time for it\nto be rethought and absorbed. It was a revelation. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\u2019m still in touch with some of the players.\nThey were <em>thrilled<\/em>.Well, of course, I can\u2019t be sure that\nevery single player was thrilled because professional musicians tend to keep\ntheir feelings to themselves, but the timpani player was having a fit of\nexcitement all the way through. He was just beside himself! Other players said\nthey just couldn\u2019t believe what they were learning about the piece and the revelations\ncame one after another after another after another. When you have a piece that\nyou think you know so well, it\u2019s really exciting to make new discoveries. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I would like to think that this recording will\nend up in every record library because there is nowhere else to find this\ninformation. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Absolutely. I think it should be required listening\/study if you\u2019re\ngoing to be researching or conducting Beethoven.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yes! <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\u2019s a joy talking to you since you\u2019ve\nobviously thought a tremendous amount about the piece and have done the work\nthat needs to be done in order to have such a thought-provoking conversation.\nAnd that\u2019s a wonderful thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ah thank you very much. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>I\u2019m absolutely delighted that you managed to fit me in, and also that\nyou might be open to chatting again sometime. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Absolutely. Let\u2019s do it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Bibliography<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Beethoven (1824) <em>Symphony No. 9 D minor Op. 125 <\/em>(Ernst Eulenberg Ltd., London 1981) <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Hopkins,\nA. <em>The Nine Symphonies of Beethoven <\/em>(Travis &amp; Emery, London 1981,\nrepublished 2011)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Recommended Reading<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Del Mar, N. <em>Conducting Beethoven Volume 1: The\nSymphonies <\/em>(Clarendon Press, Oxford 1992)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Geck, M. (trans. Spencer, S.) <em>Beethoven<\/em><em>\u2019<\/em><em>s\nSymphonies <\/em>(University of Chicago Press, U.S.A. 2017)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Lockwood, L <em>Beethoven<\/em><em>\u2019s Symphonies: An Artistic Vision <\/em>(Norton, U.S.A. 2015)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simpson,\nR. <em>Beethoven\u2019s Symphonies <\/em>(BBC,\nLondon 1970)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Weingartner, F. <em>On the Performance of Beethoven\u2019s\nSymphonies and Other Essays <\/em>(Dover Publications, Mineola N.Y. 1969)<br><\/p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref1\">[1]<\/a> Beethoven Nine, (CD) Performed by\nPhilharmonia Orchestra, Philharmonia Chorus, conducted by Benjamin Zander\n(2018) London: CD Baby <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref2\">[2]<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=I90_deaEFus\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=I90_deaEFus<\/a>\n(3.00mins)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref3\">[3]<\/a> See <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=hjiAnPnkpFY\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=hjiAnPnkpFY<\/a> for Zander\u2019s full discussion of the\ncontroversy surrounding the tempo of the Trio. Evidently, Karl wrote Presto 116\nbut instead of a whole note, he wrote a half note.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref4\">[4]<\/a> See <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=V0W4QqGYQoM\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=V0W4QqGYQoM<\/a> for Zander\u2019s discussion of the\nmistakes made in the metronome marking of the Presto\u2019s opening (8.00mins).<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref5\">[5]<\/a> All bar\/page numbers refer to the\nEulenberg edition (see Bibliography).<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref6\">[6]<\/a> Zander added \u2018If you find yourself too shocked by the Trio played at 116, you might, as a transition to accepting Beethoven\u2019s startling vision, appreciate this earlier take, for which we were just shy of Beethoven\u2019s tempo\u2019.&nbsp; <br><a href=\"https:\/\/www.dropbox.com\/sh\/n4jpk5imuxmrwic\/AAAOlkNU3p3GvqmkAuoFgBDpa?dl=0\">https:\/\/www.dropbox.com\/sh\/n4jpk5imuxmrwic\/AAAOlkNU3p3GvqmkAuoFgBDpa?dl=0<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref7\">[7]<\/a> See&nbsp;\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=hjiAnPnkpFY\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=hjiAnPnkpFY<\/a> (16mins28s).<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref8\">[8]<\/a> The matter\nof the Hammerklavier Sonata remains a question to be discussed another day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref9\">[9]<\/a> Discussion of tempo at 15mins. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=V0W4QqGYQoM\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=V0W4QqGYQoM<\/a>. Also <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=Ym6UO-ma9-U\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=Ym6UO-ma9-U<\/a> at 15mins20s. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref10\">[10]<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=wCkQ138sg6M\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=wCkQ138sg6M<\/a>&nbsp; See also <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=y3orZA9kpiU\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=y3orZA9kpiU<\/a>\nfor Zander\u2019s discussion of tempi in Beethoven\u2019s Symphony No. 5.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref11\">[11]<\/a> See <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=Bph5JU9UCxI\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=Bph5JU9UCxI<\/a> for Zander\u2019s full discussion of the\ntempo of the Adagio.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref12\">[12]<\/a> I also recommend listening to <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=gosniseqF3E\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=gosniseqF3E<\/a> (from 9mins 10s) where Zander\nstates his reason for adding a piano for impact to all of the louder passages\nthroughout the recording sessions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref13\">[13]<\/a> Covered in discussion <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=V0W4QqGYQoM\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=V0W4QqGYQoM<\/a> at 17mins20s. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref14\">[14]<\/a> See <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=Ym6UO-ma9-U\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=Ym6UO-ma9-U<\/a> for the full discussion of the\ncontroversy surrounding March\u2019s tempo, and the errors made resulting in the\nmisconception.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref15\">[15]<\/a> See <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=hjiAnPnkpFY\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=hjiAnPnkpFY<\/a> for the full discussion and\ndemonstration (20mins50s).<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref16\">[16]<\/a> See <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=32chycKC5z4&amp;list=OLAK5uy_mI5prpNqxXcUgUN_tg1UgOwYyhRhv9k90&amp;index=12\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=32chycKC5z4&amp;list=OLAK5uy_mI5prpNqxXcUgUN_tg1UgOwYyhRhv9k90&amp;index=12<\/a> (4mins48s) for more information.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>17th March 2020 Benjamin Zander is the conductor of the Boston Philharmonic Orchestra and the Boston Philharmonic Youth Orchestra. [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":707,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"pmpro_default_level":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-690","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-public","pmpro-has-access","clearfix"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/www.notesfromthepodium.co.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/B9_iTunes_COVER_HIGHRES_Page_01-2.jpg","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p8YX8Q-b8","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.notesfromthepodium.co.uk\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/690","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.notesfromthepodium.co.uk\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.notesfromthepodium.co.uk\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.notesfromthepodium.co.uk\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.notesfromthepodium.co.uk\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=690"}],"version-history":[{"count":11,"href":"https:\/\/www.notesfromthepodium.co.uk\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/690\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":933,"href":"https:\/\/www.notesfromthepodium.co.uk\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/690\/revisions\/933"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.notesfromthepodium.co.uk\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/707"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.notesfromthepodium.co.uk\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=690"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.notesfromthepodium.co.uk\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=690"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.notesfromthepodium.co.uk\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=690"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}